My View

I have never had any thoughts about getting one myself.  I have no problem whatsoever with their use as long as the person knows what the effective range is and practices like you should with any other weapon.  Many fear that if they are allowed during the regular bow season that the G&F Depts will shorten the seasons because of overkill.  I really don't believe that will be a factor because they said the same thing with muzzleloaders and look how they have taken off.  I don't know of any places that have shortened seasons due to overkill and it should be a lot easier to take an animal with them than a crossbow.  Those are my thoughts on the subject.  As far as all the technical stuff, I'm like Sgt. Shultz on Hogan's Heroes---I know nothing!!!!!!!

Mike Stephenson
aka Topgun----30-06

I bought my wife one this yr so that she can start hunting with me. She has had several surgeries on her shoulder and therfore can not use a reg compound to hunt with. I agree, that it has a place and time for use and do not believe it should be able to be used during reg archery seasons with the exception of those who are physically challenged. AS far as being able to have that animal enterd into any record books, it a NO WAY issue with me. They are accurate out to 50yds as far as the one my wife has and it eliminates the 1 motion of drawing back from normal bows. I have heard alot of younger folks start out with one and then go onto reg bows as they grow. Here in Tx, you can use one during the reg deer season as guns are able to be used but in no way is there a season of it own, now should there be. IMO, and mine only. My wife hunted with me this yr for the first time and she aced both the animals she shot. 1 at 20 yds and a big hog at 32.

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Yep, I have always told myself, that when the day comes that I have been forced to use a crossbow, I would quit bowhunting. I have given so much crap to people that could use a reg bow but chose not to just because. Even after my shoulder surgery, I worked and worked to get it back into shape so I would not have to choose to hunt with one. LOL We all as hunters need to stick together to keep our heritage going in this day and age where it looks as though it thing may be going a diff direction. If this helps some get into the outdoors, I'm all for it but there have to be some limitations to what it can and will be used for.

TX---May I ask why you feel that way about the crossbow?  They do not appear to be hurting the sport of hunting where they are legal.  I used to be firmly against them because of the fear that the seasons would be shortened, but that does not seem to be happening as more states are allowing them to be used during the regular archery seasons.  If all it comes down to is that a person thinks they are easier than another particular weapon, then God forbid because we could be back to only using spears as a way to make it harder in the field, LOL!!!

Mike Stephenson
aka Topgun----30-06

A crossbow is still an archery tool.
 
The only difference between it and a vertical compound bow is how it is held and fired.  The crossbow is no more accurate or effective than me shooting my compound.
 
I hear this all of the time, including from an organization that touts its support and conservation of the sport of archery(I am refering to the P&Y club), here in PA since the use of crossbows in archery season was just allowed.
 
I also remeber hearing some of these same arguments earlier in my archery career when the compound first appeared.  The stickbow archers cried fowl, claiming that thier sport would be ruined, I say they were dead wrong and the crossbow opponents are too.

Todd Segner 
PSE Field Staff, TRU Ball Releases Shooting Staff,
HIPS Targets Pro Staff, Any Budget Outdoors Writer,
Rage Broadheads Pro Staff, On Target2 Shooting Staff

I would have to disagree on this point of them being no more accurate than you with your compound.
 
 1) My wifes has a 4x scope on it with the crosshairs for yardage, where my bow does not.
2) The crossbow is already cocked and ready to shoot when the animal appears, my bow is not.
  a. I have to draw my bow without the animal catching me, where as a crossbow just has to be raised up and the trigger pulled.
3) My wife used a bipod rest when she shot her first animals, you could not do that with a compound. You could get some help with this by using a Knight and Hale "Steady-Ready Rest"
4) With enough practice and strength and stamina, could you hold your compound on target for min's on end? Not as long as you could hold a crossbow on the same target.
 The list goes on. My biggest point is that they should not be allowed to be used during the reg archery season except by individ's that warantee the use them. IE, dissabled. Now when it comes to the gen season, I have no problem with them being used. There are, as far as I know, no states that have even attempted to have a crossbow season, they are just usually allowed to be used for gen season. We as bowhunters have fought about this issue for along time. We have been sqeezed out of some of the best hunting time, at least here in Tx by the majority rules game. The archery season here was backed off a couple of weeks a few yrs ago becasue of the other side wanting to be in the woods for the rut. Hence our season now starts 2 weeks earlier than it used to. I am not in anyway against any form of hunting, being it bow,gun or otherwise. My point is that we as bowhunters only have a short window to hunt, it takes us all yr long of practicing to get proficient and spot on and be confident enough to take the shots we take. We can not just go out a few days before season, shoot a few rounds downrange and then go and sit in a treestand.   I guess this is enough rambling on. It was my suggestion to get this topic included into the site.  LOL This guys is all just my opinion and by no means meant to hurt or discourage anyone from hunting the way they want, with what they want. Hunting is hunting by whatever method you choose.

ORIGINAL: txbhunter1@sbcglobal

I would have to disagree on this point of them being no more accurate than you with your compound.

1) My wifes has a 4x scope on it with the crosshairs for yardage, where my bow does not.  She still has to sight it in, just because it has a scope does not mean that it is more accurate, I have a 4x lens on my 3D target bow and and I no more accurate with that lens than I am without it.  I have shot in 3D tournaments against crossbow shooters and have scored higher on the same course than they did, it all comes down to how good the Indian is
2) The crossbow is already cocked and ready to shoot when the animal appears, my bow is not. You still have to put the arrow where you aim, no matter what you shoot it with.
a. I have to draw my bow without the animal catching me, where as a crossbow just has to be raised up and the trigger pulled. Advantage 1, but only a slight advantage.  You still have to move to put the bow(any) on target, unless your psyic and already know where the animal is going to appear.
3) My wife used a bipod rest when she shot her first animals, you could not do that with a compound. You could get some help with this by using a Knight and Hale "Steady-Ready Rest" Advantage 2, but again slightly.  What does she do on her way to the stand and jumps a trophy of a lifetime and has no time for the rest, must shoot offhand?  What about stillhunting or stalking - can't use the rest here?
4) With enough practice and strength and stamina, could you hold your compound on target for min's on end? Not as long as you could hold a crossbow on the same target.  IMO - wrong on this one.  My compound weighs only 4 lbs, most x-bows weigh 8 to 10 lbs, I think you can hold the regular bow alot longer than you can a crossbow(especially today's newer bows with 80% letoffs)
The list goes on. My biggest point is that they should not be allowed to be used during the reg archery season except by individ's that warantee the use them. IE, dissabled. Now when it comes to the gen season, I have no problem with them being used. There are, as far as I know, no states that have even attempted to have a crossbow season, they are just usually allowed to be used for gen season. We as bowhunters have fought about this issue for along time. We have been sqeezed out of some of the best hunting time, at least here in Tx by the majority rules game. The archery season here was backed off a couple of weeks a few yrs ago becasue of the other side wanting to be in the woods for the rut. Hence our season now starts 2 weeks earlier than it used to. I am not in anyway against any form of hunting, being it bow,gun or otherwise. My point is that we as bowhunters only have a short window to hunt, it takes us all yr long of practicing to get proficient and spot on and be confident enough to take the shots we take. We can not just go out a few days before season, shoot a few rounds downrange and then go and sit in a treestand.   I guess this is enough rambling on. It was my suggestion to get this topic included into the site.  LOL This guys is all just my opinion and by no means meant to hurt or discourage anyone from hunting the way they want, with what they want. Hunting is hunting by whatever method you choose.

Todd Segner 
PSE Field Staff, TRU Ball Releases Shooting Staff,
HIPS Targets Pro Staff, Any Budget Outdoors Writer,
Rage Broadheads Pro Staff, On Target2 Shooting Staff

I can understand where TX might have a negative opinion if he feels he "has been pinched" by crossbow hunting!  That is about the only reason that I always had, as I stated above, and that is the worry that they could lessen or change season dates.  It would seem that with the terrific number of deer down in Texas that they could lengthen all the seasons and let you use about everything but tanks without affecting the population, LOL!  I say that because I hunted on several leased ranches over a number of years down in the brush country and they are everywhere down there!

Mike Stephenson
aka Topgun----30-06

Topgun,
That has been my position along. They wanted to shorten the reg archery season to allow for a crossbow season and not do anything to the gun season at all. They wanted all of the youth seasons to come within the archery season also.Our season for bows is short enough without shortening it up any more. They will not take away from the gun season since that is where a majority of the revenue comes from here in this state. Now not taking anything away from the gun hunters,not meant to, but let us stick and string users have at least a month where as the rest have just about 4 depending on when and where you hunt. Hell, the mgmt hunts go all the way into Mar.

I know where you are coming from.  When I used to hunt down in south Texas with my Dad I always wondered why the bow seasons were so short.  Here in Michigan ours opens on 10/1 and runs to 11/14.  You can still use them during the gun season that follows, but you have to wear orange.  The bow season opens back up on 12/1 and close on 1/1, so you are really getting the shaft down there for as few days as your season is and as many deer as there are!

Mike Stephenson
aka Topgun----30-06

Hmmmmmmm ... don't really have much opinion about use of a crossbow ... part of this is that in Nodak they're basically not allowed except for the disabled ... which, I guess, would include folks with a "shoulder problems and can't draw a bow" type of Dr.'s excuses ...

HOWever ... I can see a day in the not-too-distant future when I'll have some serious problems pulling the bow, and I'll consider seeking a permit for a crossbow ...

Some of the pros/cons y'all mention don't really apply here, either ... or they're merely different in how they affect us ...

No magnifyers or lighted pins or other "artificial" (?) sights for bows (or muzzleloaders, tho a Red Dot or 1X is OK for smokepoles)

Season begins about September 1 (a week before Labor Day? ... sometimes the last few days of August, depends on what date Saturday is ... ) and runs thru the first week of January ... Yep, we've got one-third of the year when we can hunt (deer) with a bow ... also got separate bow season for prairie goats with OTC tags (resident only? I dunno), and one can use their bow (or any legal weapon) in the "rifle" season to fill their "rifle" tag, or in the MZ season to fill their MZ tag ...

A person can get LOTS of extra tags during the rifle season, and fill all of 'em with bow (or rifle, or handgun, or MZ) (and NRs get a discount after their first license, and can buy a bunch, if they want that many, but virtually ALL the "extra" tags are for does ... )

So, in one fiscal year of seasons, a person can have ONE bow tag (deer) and ONE bow tag (Pronghorn) and ONE Muzzleloader tag (lottery, takes about five years to draw one, BUT we can use the MZ during the rifle season, with any "rifle" season tags) and about as many "Regular/Rifle" tags as we wanna spend the money to get ... and (theoretically) we can fill every one of those tags with a bow ... (but gotta wear orange clothes during the gun and MZ seasons) ...

So ... opportunities abound, if we've got the time and the ambition, to hunt with a bow ...

I'm guessing some of the arguments "against" the crossbow in Nodak are similar to whut's been said here ... "unfair advantage" ... "too many harvested" (HAH!) ... and so on ... I'm also fairly sure the "traditional" bowhunters have lobbied against it perty strongly ...

Personally, I don't care ... not against it, but won't pick it up until I can't do the other ways any more ... and I don't really think it's got an "unfair" advantage ...

One thing this conversation has done for me tho ... I'm now gonna ask our G&F guy about usin' a crossbow during the "regular" season, as merely one more category of "any legal weapon" ...

I mean ... it's "legal" for a bow tag to be filled by a person with a medical excuse, who uses a crossbow ... so ... a crossbow is a "legal" weapon ...

Therefore ... I could use a crossbow to fill one of my (several) doe tags during the rifle season ... right? Makes sense to me ...

And ... that might be an interesting way to try out that aspect of the sport ...

Tnx for the idea, gang!

(I LOVE to be able to confound the G&F guys with questions like this ... some of 'em EXPECT me to bring in the weird questions ... not that they like 'em, but they're perty good-natured about the stuff I ask 'em ... if it's not too far off the wall ... and I don't think this one is ... )

All of life is six-to-five against, just enough to keep you interested. (Damon Runyan)

Gravity makes all the important decisions ... (John R. Powers)

NRA, REMF, PF, NAHC-L, NAFC-L, KC, NPPA

I would think it will be hard for them to say no.  An awful lot of states allow them to be used by anyone during a gun season, but restrict their use the rest of the time.

Mike Stephenson
aka Topgun----30-06

Gun season is fine with me as it is in most states an all weapons season anyways. Just don't try and push us guys that take an awful lot of patience and practice out of what we have worked so hard for and that is our just time in the woods. Hell, most of the youth seasons come during the bowseason and not during reg gun season. You can see where the pwoer is in this sport. Not putting anyone down now, just my opinion as I quit gun hunting many, many yrs ago and until only recently, have I gotten into the BP side of it. I just prefer the UP CLOSE and PERSONAL side of the sport. 

Gary Scheel
NAHC LM,RMEF LM,NRA Member, Lonestar Bowhunter, TexasHogHunter Pro Staff Member

Well, here is my opinion, lol...I hunt Ohio which has one of the longest archery seasons available to hunters. Crossbows have been legal for many years, they not only have not had a negative impact on the archery seasons, but because of the "expanding" deer herd, Ohio has given out more doe tags during gun season. So, in my humble opinion, they have no more effect on poulations than a compound bow.

Old Cowboys never die, they just keep riding the Range.

 I agree that they do not have an impact on the "HERD but what I am saying is that should they allow them in my state to be used during the reg archery season, it would take away from what us guys do for month's before hand in getting ready for the season. All the target practicing and shoots to get ready. I could go and grab my wife's shoot a couple of bolts out of it and be ready to go and sit in the stand, just as many gun hunters do. Where as us as AVID archery hunters have to start way before season getting ready. In my mind, it would not be fair for the animals I pusue, to just grab my bow a couple of days before season, shoot a couple of arrows and then sit in the stand.  It is my responsibility as an archer to be the best I can be and the most proficient in my weapon and you can not do that with just a couple of shots a day or 2 before the season starts.
 Then you have to look at the books. Once they are allowed during the reg season, they have to be recognized as archery kills and that is not fair to us as archers who work at it for months.

Gary Scheel
NAHC LM,RMEF LM,NRA Member, Lonestar Bowhunter, TexasHogHunter Pro Staff Member

Gary---I really think that it's a mistake to look at it the way you are.  It isn't causing you to work harder or do anything different than you have been.  As long as your season doesn't suffer in length and the deer herd stays in good shape  physically and numerically, what have they hurt?  They can put as much or little time into their craft as the gun hunters or compound bow hunters do, so when you really look hard at it you will be fine.  It's rather weird that I'm writing this because for quite some time I was staunchly against crossbows until I really sat down and thought about it.  I came up with what I am posting here and life goes on with no real negative ramifications and maybe a few more people will enjoy God's creations that wouldn't have otherwise.  I think it is sort of selfish of us if we do or think otherwise!

Mike Stephenson
aka Topgun----30-06

Top,
 I have nothing against them, really, but do not want their kills to be entered as BOW kill's. Yes they are a type of bow, but with the way that they shoot, being scoped and never having to really feel the draw pressure,  don't think that it is fair to the guys who really have to work on their form,anchor point,concentration and so on. My wife's has a 4x scope w/crosshairs in it and I could not touch it for month's, take it out of the case, shoot 1 arrow and be ready to hunt with it. I can not really do that with my compound. There is no strength training or anything involved with shooting a crossbow, like there is with a longbow,recurve or compound. I can shoot my wife's accurately out to 50 yds with a good rest, can't do that with my compound. Yes, it is a way to get more people involved in the outdoors and hunting as a sport and I applaud them for doing so, but the crossbow as a weapon, should be classified in itself and animals shot with it should not be allowed to be entered as archery kills. The last statement is really all that I have to really gripe about.  MPO  I knew that when I entered this post, it would get my danderup and Steve made the same comment, as long as it don't get out of hand.   LOL 

Gary Scheel
NAHC LM,RMEF LM,NRA Member, Lonestar Bowhunter, TexasHogHunter Pro Staff Member

Gary---I'm in your corner all the way on your thoughts about this weapon!!!

Mike Stephenson
aka Topgun----30-06

Well you all brought up some interesting points. Here in NM crossbows are illegal with the exception being disabled hunters. So reading all this makes me think about the same conflicts in ML, flints vs. percussion vs. inline. Here you can use bow during the bow, ML, or rifle seasons you just have to decide if you want to have a bow when somebody has a center fire. Here would be my suggestion.....take it for what it is worth. If you allowed crossbows why not have a month long season open to archers with the last two weeks open to the use of crossbows. You really don't have to have a separate season just give the traditional archers two more weeks before the crossbows come in. Traditional archers get 4 weeks where crossbows get two weeks. The other thing you could do, that they did here with ML, is have certain sections open to crossbows. Here the traditionalist ML hunters wanted no optics, no sabots, etc. so they got two or three units where they can play mountain man with out the in lines and the supposed advantages of in lines.

I personally think anything to get people to enjoy the sport of hunting is a good thing if it does not detract from somebody else's enjoyment and experience of hunting.

Now as far as "the books" go they may not need a separate listing but something to denote it was killed with a crossbow. Maybe they need to do the same thing with ML and denote it was killed with an in line rather than a flintlock.

"It is better to rule than serve"

We are all entitled to our opinion. I hope none of us disparage other hunters or, their methods as long as they are legal.

Old Cowboys never die, they just keep riding the Range.